WL or CM

iiVanessa wrote:Most people insult you for using ds/ms/haste.., I dont get it...they have their weaknesses, so why can't they use them?
A petclass without pets, a sin without cloak, a healer without heals...stupid noobs -.-' use whatever you got up your sleeve right?

I don't mind CMs using Haste/MS/DS, I won't whine about it. What pisses most people off though is that after this, they want a rematch, and the CM will be like 'wait for cooldown lolz'. /pkon /pwn. Using the spells isn't bad. Relying on them is.

As for having great fun casting MS in a big group: right before siege started I placed a trap right at the portal to the dungeon, then flagged up and entered siege =D We don't need to risk getting hurt, we can place our traps way in advance. Fear Trap cd is shorter than ttl (45s vs. 1m).

I've played a WL all my life and I'm confident in this class. I've never played a CM before but they seem squishy and glass-cannon-like. I've pretty much lost interest in them after I dueled one that was a similar level as me, and popped DS on me and wasn't able to kill me with it (no dodging/resisting involved). This CM was fully buffed, Spirit of Fire, and I was fully buffed as well. That's when most CMs hit the panick button since they're used to one-hitting everything with DS and have no clue what to do if their target is still upright.

Yes, I can imagine WL being a tougher class to master, but when you do, you're pretty much the god of 1v1 PvP.

When I was 125, I soloed 125 [+++] mobs (no pet, no external buffs, no pieces, no consumables). A guildie who was a 132 CM couldn't do it. That should tell you something about WL vs. CM in PvE as well. Note that this was before the dungeon mob boost in ToA.

CM has crazy spike damage, but their only means of survival after that is /mount.
WL doesn't have ANY spike damage skills whatsoever, the DoTs they have (which are supposed to be a selling point of WLs) are depressing. But we have CC skills only a huna can match. We do better debuffing than a huna does. It makes WLs valuable in parties. Too bad most people don't realize this and don't look further than 'higher levels of Wind Weapon/Dark Might'.

Mind you, WL is still a squishy class, though not as squishy as a CM with an equal build. We get more Vit and selfbuffs.

WLs and CMs are both misunderstood. People think 'oh wow, I'm gonna be a CM and pwn everyone with awesome spike damage' and then proceed to cast Lightning Field in a DP or something. Seen it happen in 120+ parties. Yay for rebirths.

If you want to become either, my best advice is to read the guides on the Rappelz forum, gather information, and prepare yourself for handling the class. Finding out what's smart and what's stupid while you've already plunged into it is generally going to demotivate you.

Wow, thanks alot for your long post
Well to be honest I use lightning field too sometimes, but this is after the tank circulated around. It can help out greatly sometimes, but the timing here is of big importance.
Looking forward to more long but yet so easy to read posts.

( Zyppy, are you a journalist or something? You write in a way that's really fast and easy to read and yet with so much information.)

iiVanessa wrote:( Zyppy, are you a journalist or something? You write in a way that's really fast and easy to read and yet with so much information.)

Nah, I always write easy-to-read walls of text when I'm in bragging mode ^^

Ya, Zyp pretty much touched - more in depth ofc - on what I was trying to say. There are strengths and weaknesses to both, and it really all comes down to how YOU want to play. I'm not going to throw out any comments like "wl pwns all cms" "cms suck" "wl's are too weak" or statements like that because they aren't fair. Each class is different - if they weren't the game would be boring. I <3 my warlock and wouldn't change it for the world - and I've won my pvp battles against cm's. But there will always be different circumstances. So, pick one - or say "f it" and make BOTH haha.

I'd like to add something actually.

Most people DO look beyond 'higher levels of Wind Weapon/Dark Might'. They also see Haste/MS/DS. My bad there.

What it comes down to though is that these skills are PvP skills. I find it funny that people would pick a CM over a WL in their DP because a CM supposedly has higher damage output (albeit spike). It's not like the CM is going to actually use that spike damage unless someone triggered the 1-minute rule or anything. Otherwise the CM grabs aggro and hits the deck.

One thing everyone should keep in mind is that both a CM and a WL deliberately LOWER their damage output in a DP. For everyone whose mouth is now hanging open in surprise: If I, as a WL, go all-out on damage output, I'm going to outaggro everything short of Provoke and 1-minute-ruling. Which means quick thinking or getting floored. CMs have it worse with naturally higher Int and lower Vit, and no selfbuffs.

Only a CM that's either totally out of his mind or has paid enough attention to know that someone has 1-minute-ruled the target is going to pop DS on a mob.

Haha, guess I'm the CM out of my mind cause I DS allot in pties

Actually a CM is a good addition to pt with his PvP skills. I totally agree that these are mainly PvP skills but MS/DS are quite useful sometimes! For e. I normally use Haste/Heed/DS when we have 2 mob on us (1 half HP one full HP) which helps kill speed, and I have to say that in my opinion a CM means better kill speed if he uses DS/Heed/haste in pt. I use it all the time, sometimes I get pawned but if it is used carefully it's a quite boost in kill speed. DS was better used in Dungeon system before this new patch, cause you could easily wipe out the whole room with it, but now it has limited use.

MS I don't use that much, but trust me it saved ass to a few healers!

And I agree with Zyp, cause as a CM/WL u use lower lvl skills in dp-ies. I use lvl 5 spams which don't take aggro at all, and I can easily replenish my mana after DS.
Anything higher than that....

well i have to say that i dont have a cm or wl as char but i supported a mate in choosing one of them.

so because of my 2nd hand experiences and from what i read in here the system of playing a cm is pretty easy.
your first opponents are dead befor they know that they are cause you will just destroy them with ms ds fb etc. if ms is on cd, you kinda lost your only cc skill. at this point surviving the next attack seems for me very low possible.

wl doesnt have those massive dmg skills to kill anyone in ms time but they controll the fight to 90%. so if you were able to survive the fear trap its still very hard to beat a good wl.
also i think you have to mention that wl got stronger spawn skills ( cause of the selfbuffs) and they will reduce your defence alot to make even more dmg. so they dont got the weakness of just beeing able to make alot dmg every 5mins.

thats why i prefer wl

actually, its more of haste of the conjuror....if thats down, then your lost. since that is the key to starting the super autowin cazillion hit combo chain...

Meteor Shower and Dark Spiral itself has long casting times. haste of conjuror makes them insta cast.

Last time i was dueling Nashuz and Vash with my 89 CM, the only times i came close was using that combo and praying for my wis gear to kick in on Vashti =P

Zzerase wrote:
Last time i was dueling Nashuz and Vash with my 89 CM, the only times i came close was using that combo and praying for my wis gear to kick in on Vashti =P

I love you zz <3

Against a CM, or ANY mage class for that matter, I always go full Wis build, and filling the gaps with Vit. Hunas are a tricky bunch, and clerics are hard to out-wis but at least landing your spells will get you places. But a CM vs. full Wis WL is going to have a serious problem on their hands.

Meteor Shower isn't macc corrected, but percentage-based, so there's not much you can do about that, but DS can be resisted through pure Wis. Same with FB, Splash, etc.

WL